Jan 21 2009

Lukewarm start of the day (4 trades, 2 wins 2 stops) was sudden;y followed by a very strong performance. Some of usual suspects (DRYS is impossible to omit) plus some unlikely trading candidates like STT made the day nicely profitable.

 

Session Time: Wed Jan 21 00:00:00 2009

[08:00] {cujo} good morning all. 

[08:11] {Threei}  good morning

[08:12] {cujo} morning

[08:14] {magoo} morning

[08:15] {Threei}  cujo, magoo :)

[08:17] {Threei}  BALTIC DRY BULK INDEX +3.2%, A SECOND STRAIGHT ADVANCE

[08:21] {nemo} Gruestig, mornin'

[08:21] {Threei}  nemo :)

[08:22] {magoo} just missed drus move

[08:22] {nemo} look @ stt

[08:22] {magoo} i believe AAPL after bell ...any other biggies vad?

[08:22] {magoo} what about STT?

[08:23] {nemo} DCB from yesterday's debacle

[08:23] {Threei}  01/21/09 01:25am

[08:23] {Threei}  [STT] State Street Corp "Heard on the Street" looks at STT's bond-related losses and capital levels

[08:24] {Threei}  - The article comments on STT's higher than expected losses. The company had mark-market losses of $6.3B in Q4, which was well above Morgan Stanley's estimate. In addition, STT reported higher paper losses on its bond holdings.

[08:24] {Threei}  - Citigroup and JP Morgan also reported large paper bond losses in Q4. The system-wide bond losses by banks could show that there is a lack of appetite for certain types of bonds, such as corporate bonds.

[08:24] {Threei}  - WSJ notes that Obama's administration may have to increase the Fed's commitments to buy bonds and possible expand the types of bonds that the Fed can buy.

[08:24] {Threei}  - With respect to State Street's capital levels, the company has a Tier 1 capital ratio of 20.5%, but its tangible common equity as a percentage of tangible assets, including off-balance sheet vehicles, is 1.05% of assets.

[08:26] {patience} gm RT

[08:26] {Threei}  patience :)

[08:26] {larisa} good morning :)

[08:27] {Threei}  latisa :)

[08:27] {Threei}  ummm

[08:27] {Threei}  t=r

[08:27] {Threei}  I guess

[08:27] {elepet} good morning to all.

[08:27] {Threei}  elepet :)

[08:27] {larisa} threei, elepet :)

[08:28] {elepet} I figured out what 1:1 means. slowly learning. What is link to Baltic dry bulk index?

[08:29] {Threei}  link?

[08:29] {Threei}  I don't think there is any

[08:29] {Threei}  at list not real time

[08:30] {Threei}  or you mean explanation what it is?

[08:31] {elepet} so how do you find out information? I think you once mentioned it here. I did find out what it is.

[08:31] {Threei}  I have real time news feed

[08:41] {KSystems} elepet you may find a good explanation of what the Baltic Dry Index is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Dry_Index

[08:44] {pita} Hello everyone, been awhile since I visited.....

[08:44] {Threei}  hi pita, welcome back

[08:44] {cujo} hello

[08:45] {pita} hi cujo, ty Vad

[08:49] {hawkfan4} good morning all

[08:49] {Threei}  hawk :)

[08:51] {magoo} anyone know who of significance reports after bell ? i believe AAPL

[08:52] {elepet} I did that already. have a list of others besides drys and am holding one or two for medium long term. 

[08:52] {Threei}  EBAY mags

[08:53] {pita} AAPL at 4:30 est, I believe

[08:54] {cujo} http://biz.yahoo.com/research/earncal/20090121.html

[08:54] {magoo} AAPL always good for 20 point move

[08:54] {cujo} I use Yahoo for earnings Cal.  Not sure if it is what you are looking for. 

[08:54] {magoo} never know which way tho

[08:54] {magoo} IBM went up 5 last nite

[08:55] {magoo} dow been down last 9 of 10 correct?

[08:56] {elepet} SST  pre market. up quite a bit.

[08:56] {magoo} TY btw 

[08:57] {nemo} stt (echo,echo,echo)

[08:58] {magoo} if OIF we are to move up today...GS is the mkt tell

[08:58] {elepet} oh yes. not typing so good this morning. pretty early.

[08:59] {Threei}  PALM is trying to chew through 8 time and again

[09:00] {magoo} 8.30 arra turned it back 2 sessions ago i believe

[09:00] {KSystems} Good morning!

[09:01] {nemo} Gruess Gott Herrn K!

[09:04] {Threei}  ks :)

[09:07] {dptl} gm all

[09:07] {Threei}  dp :)

[09:07] {gen} gm all

[09:07] {Threei}  gen :)

[09:08] {Onix} gm all

[09:09] {Threei}  onix :)

[09:09] {KSystems} nemo how's your trouting?

[09:09] {KSystems} did it work?

[09:09] {nemo} nope

[09:10] {Threei}  I guess someone up there doesn't want you to be armed

[09:10] {nemo} I reinstalled the whole shbang.  nuttin'  Leaves me kinda empty. :(

[09:10] {nemo} I'll settle for coffers full of money

[09:11] {fernp} Hello everybody

[09:11] {Threei}  fern :)

[09:11] {magoo} so u are vulnerable nemo?

[09:11] {Threei}  nemo... duck

06[09:12] * magoo slaps nemo around a bit with a large big grinn knowing retaliation not an option

[09:12] {ese} morning.....

[09:12] {Threei}  ese :)

[09:12] {Threei}  gen... dcc please

[09:13] {nemo} I use a Nightforce magoo and practice at 1000 yds.

[09:14] {nemo} Well, not in all this snow

[09:15] {Threei}  yesterday's high is 14.05 for DRYS

[09:16] {Threei}  on some openings it rallies like crazy, on some it makes a steep pullback, then big bounce

[09:17] {Threei}  can't really tell which scenario develops today... I would love big pullback

[09:17] {Threei}  over last week or so it pulled back from 17+ highs on decreasing volume, looks like bull flag on daily

[09:18] {Threei}  but the gap is already too big

[09:18] {Threei}  so, most likely let's go with pullback scenario and try to catch it if materializes

[09:19] {Threei}  if no pullback, let's watch for opening range break

[09:20] {cujo} what price would signal a pullback?  around 13.95 on increasing vol?

[09:20] {Threei}  that's a bit too shallow for a pullback

[09:21] {Threei}  if 13.95 is all it can do on the downside, than opening range break is the way to go

[09:21] {cujo} ok, keeping eyes open. 

[09:21] {cosmo} PALM

[09:21] {cosmo} tests

[09:22] {dino} gm

[09:23] {magoo} on drys..it should hit 15 if breaks up..psattern is to run much farther than scalp

[09:23] {Threei}  dino :)

[09:23] {Threei}  very true mags

[09:24] {Threei}  PALM... .30 - .40 zone is highs of two days

[09:25] {Threei}  usually it forms nice solid consolidation before break and run

[09:25] {cosmo} including open breaks?

[09:25] {Threei}  so, if this one wants to continue its rally, I would think we will have enough of advance warning

[09:26] {Threei}  not sure cosmo, did't track open breaks on it

[09:26] {cosmo} seems like its been years...

[09:28] {Raven} it has ...

[09:29] {Threei}  lol

[09:30] {cujo} Drys moving lower

[09:30] {Threei}  13.60 or so, I am interested in pullback

[09:31] {Threei} Long Setup:  PALM  8 break if holding above 7.85

[09:31] {Threei}  scalpers can keep stop under .90

[09:31] {KSystems} in

[09:31] {fernp} in

[09:31] {magoo} in

[09:33] {cujo} in

[09:33] {Threei}  stop to under .90 in any case

[09:33] {elepet} in

[09:34] {Threei}  8.05 becomes critical level

[09:35] {Threei}  no worky

[09:35] {KSystems} out

[09:35] {fernp} stopped

[09:35] {cujo} stopped

[09:36] {Onix} what you ean by 8.05 is critical level on PALM Vad?

[09:36] {Threei}  it tested it twice

[09:37] {Threei}  became a resistance defining the future of the trade

[09:37] {ese} bstop WGOV. 24.50 1/2

[09:38] {Onix} ty

[09:38] {Threei}  DRYS losing support

[09:41] {ese} wgov  invalidated

[09:45] {ese} HBHC dino?

[09:45] {Threei} Long Setup:  DRYS  .65 break half lot if stays above .50

[09:45] {magoo} any read RIMM ?

[09:45] {KSystems} in

[09:46] {Threei}  RIMM, want deeper pullback

[09:48] {Threei}  DRYS 1 cent shy of 1:1? come on

[09:52] {Threei}  DRYS over 1:1

[09:53] {dino} hbhc blood

[09:53] {KSystems} half out .81

[09:53] {Threei}  stop to under .60

[09:54] {Threei}  and try to exit second half around 14

[09:54] {Threei}  offer .96 - .97

[09:54] {Threei}  out

[09:55] {Threei}  ks?

[09:55] {KSystems} DRYS - in .66 - out 1/2 .81 - out rest .97

[09:55] {Threei}  good

[09:55] {Threei}  between PALM and DRYS, we may have stayed in bed just as well {G}

[09:56] {ese} l hbhc .75

[09:56] {ese}  1/2

[09:56] {ese} sorry thats 25.78

[09:57] {ese} out .12 

[09:57] {ese} +.34

[09:58] {ese} dino your my idol man!!

[09:59] {Onix} ty Vad, i got 30c in DRYS

[09:59] {ese} went long after that first reversal on 1min chart high was .76 got .78....you live a dangerous life though

[09:59] {Threei}  :)

[09:59] {Threei}  nice one ese

[10:00] {magoo} is there a breakout play DRYS?

[10:00] {Threei}  14 break is obvious setup on it

[10:00] {Threei}  hate the way it pulls back though

[10:01] {Threei}  it's usually fine when there is a real momop

[10:01] {Threei}  momo

[10:01] {Threei}  but it's a bit labored today

[10:02] {nemo} stt 

[10:02] {dino} gj es

[10:04] {ese} tks dino

[10:04] {dino} idcc

[10:05] {ese} indeed

[10:05] {ese} where....

[10:05] {Threei}  GE

[10:05] {Threei}  MOVES BELOW NOVEMBER LOW TO TRADE AT LEVELS NOT SEEN SINCE 1996

[10:06] {Threei}  no kidding

[10:06] {ese} and thats a pretty solid company

[10:07] {Threei}  ok... if DRYS is not losing .85 anymore, 14 break become more palatable

[10:07] {Threei}  (not less scary, mind you)

[10:08] {ese} thats a 10 month high on IDCC also dino

[10:08] {Threei}  invalidated

[10:08] {Threei}  kind of relief, to say honestly :)

[10:08] {Threei}  didn't feel easy about that break

[10:08] {Threei}  RIMM is holding interestingly strong on this market pullback

[10:09] {nemo} is that an unequivocal maybe?

[10:09] {Threei}  you lost me right after "is"

[10:10] {Threei}  hey, Geithner paid his taxes

[10:10] {Threei}  how nice of him

[10:10] {nemo} poor sense of humor-me

[10:11] {Threei}  no clear setup on RIMM

[10:11] {Threei}  a bit listless chart

[10:12] {ese} arghhhhh...wasn't paying attention WGOV missed 24,50 

[10:13] {ese} ah well...more where that came from

[10:13] {fernp} QCOR holding. Any read, Vad?

[10:14] {Onix} stoppe in PALM, thought the 7.70 would hold it

[10:14] {Threei}  chart looks right fern... it's volume that I hate

[10:15] {Threei}  trades by appointment

[10:15] {fernp} Yes, I see. ty

[10:15] {Threei}  PALM is losing will to live Onix, leave it well alone for now

[10:16] {Threei}  couldn't even stage a decent bounce when market made new highs

[10:16] {Onix} for sure!

[10:19] {ese} L hbhc again .38

[10:20] {ese}  1/2

[10:21] {Threei} Long Setup:  PLD  .40 break half lot

[10:21] {ese} out .57

[10:21] {Threei}  if sets up from here, stop is under .30

[10:21] {Threei}  .20 invalidating level

[10:22] {ese} weird fill +.19

[10:22] {ese} was showing .42

[10:22] {Threei}  aggressive entry is probably a good idea if cmes closer to .20

[10:23] {ese} WGOV.....nice move after .50 breakout

[10:23] {Threei}  pretty much a market follower so keep an eye on the broader market totime it

[10:23] {ese} almost up 1 pt

[10:26] {ese} speaking of weird fills vad....was watching time a sales  and didn't even see .57...how does a broker do that without posting on the time and sales ...in house?  cand they do that

[10:26] {fernp} invalidated or good moment to jump in w/stop under 11.00?

[10:26] {Threei}  to me, feels right for entry fern

[10:26] {fernp} ok, in

[10:26] {Threei}  on what ese?

[10:27] {ese} hbhc ....my last rade

[10:27] {ese} fill on my 1/2 ;ot was .57

[10:27] {Threei}  sorry, didn't watch it...

[10:27] {ese} but didn't see posted on time and sales

[10:28] {ese} was just wondering if they can do that....brokers that is

[10:28] {Threei}  not really without posting print

[10:28] {ese} do a fill without posting on time and sales

[10:28] {Threei}  market sharp drop

[10:29] {ese} maybe missed it 

[10:30] {fernp} stopped PLD

[10:31] {dino} cohu

[10:31] {ese} check out pattern on ERIC vad......textbook...from your book......10 cent range

[10:33] {Threei}  too narrow

[10:33] {Threei}  not sure it hasd a play in it

[10:33] {ese} too narrow.....no breakout either side

[10:36] {Threei}  STT huge pullback

[10:41] {nemo} on stt, is that an ascending triangle or diving board!

[10:41] {Threei}  can't tell really

[10:42] {dino} celg sm l .02

[10:54] {magoo} pie*e sh*t market

[10:54] {nemo} gotta wonder if the markets are getting readly to keel over hard.  It's like the Grinch and the sleigh

[10:54] {gen} :( have to go do my job :(

[10:54] {gen} by everybody

[10:55] {fernp} bye gen

[10:55] {Threei}  take care gen

[10:55] {magoo} bye gen

[10:57] {Threei}  FORMER FED CHAIR VOLCKER: US IN 'SERIOUS RECESSION', NO END IN SIGHT; USD CONFIDENCE MAY POTENTIALLY BE 'UNDERMINED'

[10:57] {Threei}  helpful comments eh

[10:57] {nemo} understatement

[10:57] {dino} s&p gap fill

[10:57] {dino} 1136 ndx gap

[10:58] {magoo} every f'n day if u shorted opening spike

[10:58] {magoo} dammit

[10:58] {Threei}  relax mags

[10:58] {magoo} its so obvious its stupid

[10:58] {Threei}  what's with emotions

[10:59] {dino} rally next week magoo, mark-ups. happens every month

[10:59] {cujo} even in mkts like this?

[10:59] {nemo} apocalypse next week..no markups

[10:59] {dino} 1000 dji pts., 140 ndx, 120 s&p

[11:00] {dino} nemo, check last week oct, nov., dec

[11:00] {magoo} it wears on ya vad..enoughs enough with this sh%t mkt

[11:00] {nemo} dino-you mean markups! never mind my sense of humor

[11:00] {dino} getting close magoo, need more people thinking that way

[11:01] {nemo} mags-what shit market...Vad's been makin money for months

[11:01] {dino} ok nemooooooooooooo

[11:01] {Threei}  I am at loss

[11:01] {Threei}  really

[11:01] {dino} it's all good

[11:01] {Threei}  what's wrong with market where we run such percentage?

[11:01] {Threei}  it's not very tradeable today so far, so what?

[11:01] {magoo} figure it out..maybe u have but i haven't

[11:02] {Threei}  all my calls and trades are posted

[11:02] {Threei}  I don't know what it is I need to figure out

[11:02] {Threei}  don't take it out on me, ok?

[11:02] {nemo} nothin' to figure out other than what you do right now.  Yesterday was great, today so, so...tomorrow...somethin' else.

[11:03] {dino} i'll say this, i've traded less this month than a usual week. lots of sitting for me

[11:03] {cujo} think this is head fake on the bounce?  

[11:03] {cujo} indicies

[11:03] {Threei}  no read for now cujo

[11:03] {Threei}  I want to let this selling sort itself out

[11:03] {dino} cujo, need that ndx gap filled, or we come back to it later

[11:03] {magoo} figure out+maybe u up but i not..i don't just follow u blindly {although maybe i should}

[11:04] {Threei}  every bounce got smacked so far, no need to guess on each f them

[11:04] {dino} 1136

[11:04] {cujo} yup, not making a move.  Just in interesting territory.

[11:05] {nemo} Seems I remember reading in Livermore's book he actually had to go back to work for awhile because the market was doin' nothin'.  

[11:05] {Threei}  I don't want to be overactive on a day when trades don't work out with high percentage

[11:05] {dino} it's doing something, 15% ranges

[11:05] {Threei}  look at two days to compare:

[11:06] {Threei}  yesterday almost all of them worked, we did around 10 trades, adn I continued pushing when valid setups presented themselves

[11:06] {Threei}  out of 3 today's, only one did

[11:06] {dino} i would like to buy a hambuger

[11:06] {nemo} So, the weak morning tells you the stars aren't aligned for you today

[11:06] {nemo} Dino...will you pay for it Tuesday?

[11:06] {Threei}  so I don't want to overtrade until things start looking more readable

[11:06] {dino} think in terms of probabilities

[11:07] {dino} i will gladly pay you tomorrow for a hamburger today

[11:07] {nemo} I figgered

[11:07] {nemo} I've had all I can stands and I can't stands no more!

[11:08] {larisa} traders are way more emotional these days :)

[11:08] {dino} lol

[11:08] {nemo} valium helps

[11:08] {magoo} let me set my rage straight...i am not getting on your case...i just think this mkt sux...worste jan in long time./..pretty lame seasonality in dec...i am sick of it...cant even get 2 days up straight ovr 100 pts 

[11:10] {magoo} christ dow under 8k

[11:10] {magoo} mkt sux

[11:10] {ese} adtn...

[11:12] {dino} ahhh, magoo, the vodka is in the freezer, have a shot or two

[11:12] {magoo} im gonna dino....im GONNA

[11:12] {dino} there he goes down the hall

[11:13] {Threei}  DRYS, looks ready for bounce scalp

[11:13] {Threei}  based on market bounce only

[11:14] {Threei}  .35 closest support

[11:14] {Threei}  try to catch it on one of these quick trips down

[11:15] {Threei}  if holding well on this market pullback, will be capable of more than scalp

[11:16] {Threei}  good offer at .42 for entry indication

[11:16] {magoo} in .33 just now

[11:16] {nemo} ah shit Laser dumped on me

[11:17] {magoo} dave what???

[11:17] {Threei} Long Setup:  DRYS  .42 break if holding above .30

[11:18] {ese} tick and trin index are showing people buying today......this thing go crazy by the end of the day....although Vochkers comments didn't exactly help....that guys a war monger i think

[11:18] {Threei}  you have seriously over 1:1 here mags

[11:19] {ese} qqqq double bottom...hmmmmmmm

[11:20] {ese} i hear mags pain though......

[11:20] {magoo} to be clear..vad IS doing great in a terrible market

[11:20] {dino} me too (literally)

[11:21] {magoo} problem is..i am a momo trader and miss the MOMO

[11:21] {nemo} ahhhhhh...an adrenaline junky

[11:21] {Threei}  that's magoo

[11:22] {Threei}  momo will be back... but momo markets are not a very high percentage of time

[11:22] {nemo} Magoo you ever heard the story of the young bull and the old bull?

[11:22] {Threei}  DRYS half out

[11:22] {wishbone} lol nemo

[11:22] {Threei}  lol

[11:22] {ese} noope

[11:22] {ese} what is it

[11:22] {magoo} no..but dino always giving the hair vs rabbit story

[11:23] {ese} tick +1200 trin -2.8 thats big buying...could be bigger but it's big

[11:23] {dino} and the lesson of the rocking horse winner

[11:23] {nemo} ese check your windows

[11:24] {Threei}  stop to .39

[11:24] {ese} whats up?

[11:24] {Threei}  try to exit second half DRYS on a spike above .60

[11:24] {ese} i'm looking through a fog?

[11:24] {magoo} i can relate to rocking horse winner...thats magoo to a tee

[11:24] {Threei}  STT... was temoted to call 16 break and hesitated

[11:24] {nemo} ese, you on mirc?

[11:25] {magoo} there must be more money....must be more $$

[11:25] {ese} no.....

[11:25] {nemo} ahh, that's a problem.  I can't really tell you the story in a public forum

[11:26] {ese} caught it....

[11:27] {dino} cvtx

[11:27] {magoo} now im mad........dino out of vodka

[11:28] {dino} scotch on the file cabinet

[11:28] {nemo} try rubbing alcohol, mags

[11:28] {magoo} over ice?

[11:28] {nemo} with cranberry juice

[11:28] {magoo} ok..on it

[11:29] {nemo} too bad can't get ludes anymore

[11:29] {magoo} l rimm here ,.48

[11:29] {magoo} l q here .30

[11:30] {magoo} lets getter' done

[11:30] {Threei}  DRYS stop to .45

[11:30] {Threei}  here comes out break

[11:31] {dino} mcd sm l .18

[11:31] {Threei}  out in full .62

[11:32] {Threei}  50/50 again... lol

[11:32] {Threei}  threading water

[11:33] {magoo} no laughing..cant focus :)

[11:33] {Threei}  you took profit on your DRYSS??

[11:33] {magoo} nope

[11:33] {Threei}  shrug

[11:33] {KSystems} yes :)

[11:33] {Threei}  you have unrealistic expectations for this market magoo

[11:34] {magoo} was tyhinking .80?

[11:34] {Threei}  so partial

[11:34] {Threei}  why risk whole thing?

[11:34] {Threei}  you see waves changing on a dime

[11:34] {nemo} adrenaline?

[11:34] {Threei}  some idiot comes out with some idiotic remark,

[11:35] {Threei}  whole market dumps next second

[11:35] {Threei}  why be a victim of idiots?

[11:35] {nemo} one in hand mags

[11:35] {Threei}  protect your profits

[11:35] {magoo} out

[11:35] {magoo} TY

[11:35] {Threei}  didn't we go through the parade of idiots commenting on things they had no slightest idea bout, yet influenced market greatly, a few months back?

[11:36] {magoo} oyt RIMM .68

[11:36] {magoo} TRY

[11:36] {cujo} I wan't here a few months ago.  Was that The Jim Cramer Biography?

[11:36] {magoo} TRY=TY

[11:36] {Threei}  and all this emotional hoopla totally threw me off re: STT

[11:36] {Threei}  grrr

[11:36] {dino} lol cujo

[11:37] {Threei}  lol cujo

[11:37] {cujo} ;)  I try

[11:37] {Threei}  no... although it could have easily been

[11:37] {dino} pretty much short anything cramer says to buy

[11:37] {Threei}  I referred to the situation we had on hands when TARP was debated

[11:37] {cujo} yeah "The Cramer Effect"

[11:37] {cujo} ahh TARP

[11:37] {Threei}  every 15 minutes new comment would appear

[11:37] {Threei}  approved

[11:37] {Threei}  not approved

[11:37] {Threei}  approved but with conmditions

[11:38] {Threei}  these seators do not agree with cnditions

[11:38] {Threei}  these do

[11:38] {dino} T(total)A(azzhole)R(re-election)P(plan)

[11:38] {cujo} he he

[11:38] {Threei}  and market would drop or jump like crazy with every comment

[11:38] {Threei}  try to trade when it's such a mess, lol

[11:38] {cujo} it was crazy then. 

[11:39] {nemo} that 850b dem stimulus plan is spread out over 10 years, by the way

[11:39] {Threei}  now, guys

[11:39] {Threei}  let's restore the balance a bit, shall we

[11:39] {Threei}  we are at 50 % so far today, 4 trades,

[11:39] {Threei}  2 wins, 2 stops

[11:40] {Threei}  nothing remarkable, I mean I wouldn't run around telling pretty girls about such achievement in hope to excite them by my trading prowess,

[11:40] {Onix} is that a good balance?

[11:40] {Threei}  and nothing to be desperate about

[11:41] {larisa} how did you want to play STT vad?  16 break to upside  afer bottoming under 15.50 ? just curious.

[11:41] {Threei}  I mean emotional abalnce and perspective on things

[11:41] {KSystems} where was the first stop?

[11:41] {KSystems} or rather, _when_?

[11:41] {nemo} Vad, expectations, expectations, expectations. 

[11:41] {Threei}  yes larisa, with stop under 14.80

[11:41] {nemo} Emotions are the enemy of execution...as you said STT

[11:41] {Threei}  15.80

[11:41] {larisa} 15.80 you mean/ pullback too big and 16 too far off bottom, just wondering what was your vision

[11:42] {Threei}  PALM ks, right after the open

[11:42] {KSystems} ok, that one i got

[11:42] {KSystems} then the other one?

[11:42] {Threei}  PLD

[11:42] {KSystems} wow it didnt even trigger for me

[11:42] {Threei}  was hesitant call, but asnwering a question on it it could qualify as a call nonetheless

[11:43] {Threei}  no, it was more like a pullback entry

[11:43] {KSystems} ok, ty

[11:43] {Threei}  larisa... setup I mean was:

[11:43] {Threei}  after bounce off 15.50 it consilidated a bit under 16,

[11:44] {Threei}  then broke it with low of the consolidation range about 15.80

[11:46] {hawkfan4} am i here?

06[11:46] * magoo slaps hawkfan4 around a bit with a large roll of cash

[11:46] {Threei}  I am very tempted to say no

[11:47] {nemo} beat me to it vad

[11:47] {nemo} Vad, if STT breaks .80 likely to test spike in an up market?

[11:47] {hawkfan4} lol :)...finally conquered mirc

[11:47] {Threei}  lol

[11:47] {Threei}  mirc proves to be worthy adversary

[11:48] {Threei}  people fight it for weeks

[11:48] {nemo} I want my mirc attacks!

[11:49] {magoo} i only beat it yesterday

[11:50] {cujo} Free traders expo in NYC in FEB.  Anyone in the area?

[11:50] {Threei}  UAUA COO: CLEARLY SEEING LESS DEMAND FOR AIR TRAVEL; CUSTOMERS ARE FLYING LESS AND TAKING COACH MORE OFTEN - CONF CALL

[11:51] {Threei}  don't waste your time cujo

[11:51] {cujo} really?  Ugh.

[11:51] {Threei}  I used to give seminars on thoswe

[11:51] {Threei}  there was a good reason why I stopped

[11:51] {Threei}  turned into total vendorfest

[11:51] {Threei}  no substance, just selling

[11:52] {cujo} got it.  Yeah there are a ton of vendors there. 

[11:52] {Threei}  that would fine,

[11:52] {Threei}  after all, expo must turn profit somehow

[11:52] {Threei}  but there must be some value delivered as well

[11:52] {cujo} yeah

[11:53] {Threei}  and that part disappeared when new Expo owners started treating speakers as commodity

[11:53] {dino} evep

[11:53] {cujo} well, saved me 2 days in the cold treking to midtown ;)

[11:53] {Threei}  unless you want a lot of sale pitches

[11:53] {nemo} miss any calls?

[11:54] {Threei}  no

[11:54] {cujo} nah, would rather sleep ;)

[12:05] {Threei}  AAPL

[12:05] {Threei}  SEC OPENS INQUIRY INTO DISCLOSURE OF CEO STEVE JOBS' HEALTH - WSJ CITING SOURCES

[12:06] {magoo} kind of old vad

[12:06] {magoo} read this morn

[12:06] {Threei}  another YHOO/MSFT rumor, no slightest reaction this time

[12:06] {cujo} boy who cried wolf. 

[12:09] {dino} wasn't cujo a movie about wolves?

[12:09] {cujo} ha ha ha

[12:09] {cujo} a big slobbery rabid dog

[12:10] {nemo} Saint Barnard actually

[12:10] {cujo} ;)

[12:11] {cujo} possible c & h starting to form in AAPL?

[12:11] {magoo} my Q finally ovwer 1:1

[12:12] {Threei}  not delighted by it cujo

[12:12] {cujo} got ya. 

[12:12] {Threei}  if market goes up strongly it could follow of course

[12:12] {cujo} y

[12:12] {Threei}  but looks iffy

[12:16] {Threei}  IDCC

[12:16] {Threei}  big offer at .20

[12:16] {Threei}  long half lot if taken

[12:16] {Threei}  stop under .30

[12:19] {magoo} dam xploded

[12:19] {magoo} i caught .28

[12:20] {Threei}  hmmm

[12:20] {Threei}  a bit high

[12:20] {magoo} yup

[12:20] {Threei}  what do you use market orders??

[12:20] {dino} out mcd .78, +.60

[12:20] {magoo} NO

[12:20] {cujo} +.10

[12:20] {cujo} IDCC

[12:20] {cujo} Thanks Vad

[12:20] {Onix} gj dino!

[12:20] {Threei}  lol cujo... that's relentless profit grabbing

[12:20] {Threei}  wtg

[12:20] {cujo} sry

[12:20] {magoo} u dog cujo

[12:20] {cujo} gun shy

[12:20] {Threei}  lol

[12:20] {magoo} i prob bought yours

[12:20] {cujo} he he he

[12:21] {cujo} sld .29 and .32

[12:21] {cujo} maybe?

[12:21] {dino} ty onix

[12:22] {Threei}  half out .40

[12:22] {Threei}  stop to .15

[12:24] {Threei}  how about this market dump

[12:25] {Threei}  stop to just under .20

[12:25] {Threei}  out

[12:25] {Threei}  .24 and .22

[12:26] {magoo} mkt jkilled it

[12:26] {Threei}  yeah, it had more in it

[12:26] {Threei}  maybe still does

[12:27] {Threei}  but I am not taking chances on a thin stock

[12:28] {magoo} markets show no confidence

[12:36] {magoo} vad..i got weird feeling DRYS going over day high

[12:37] {magoo} just way its hangin around

[12:37] {Threei}  can't tell anything here

[12:37] {Threei}  IDCC, yeah, this thing is full of determination

[12:37] {Threei}  DRYS, don't know

[12:37] {cujo} stt testing support?

[12:38] {Threei}  losing is more like it :)

[12:38] {cujo} short set up?

[12:38] {Threei}  not here

[12:38] {Threei}  .50 breakdown was

[12:38] {dino} idcc, bad memories, couple years ago held 3k shares overnight, opened  minus 8

[12:38] {Threei}  yikes

[12:39] {dino} yeah, it kind of sucked

[12:39] {larisa} :(

[12:39] {magoo} oh yeah...it was a stock tip from lefty

[12:42] {Threei}  who?

[12:43] {magoo} a fraternity friend of ours

[12:43] {magoo} he gave us the tip[

[12:44] {Threei}  TREASURY NOMINEE GEITHNER: CURRENCY MANIPULATION IS A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE

[12:44] {Threei}  {USD/CNY}

[12:44] {magoo} who needs enemies lol

[12:44] {hawkfan4} is he still a friend? :)

[12:44] {hawkfan4} lol

[12:45] {Threei}  see hawk.,.. you think of mags better than I do... question that crossed my mind was is he still alive?

[12:46] {dino} my fault, i put the trade on

[12:46] {cujo} lunchtime

[12:46] {cujo} brb

[12:46] {hawkfan4} lol vad

[12:46] {dino} like a semester at harvard

[12:47] {nemo} doin' the deed's not the problem.  Gettin' rid of the body...that's a problem

[12:47] {hawkfan4} been there dino

[12:48] {dino} it's a strange profession we have undertaken

[12:48] {wishbone} good friends will help you move

[12:48] {dino} lol

[12:48] {wishbone} the best of friends will help you move the body

[12:48] {Threei}  lol

[12:49] {hawkfan4} :) 

[12:49] {nemo} ekzaktly

[12:49] {nemo} really, really good friends bring the acid

[12:49] {wishbone} gettin' kinda dark in here

[12:49] {Threei}  misspelling a bit nemo... eqzaktly is more elegant way to spell it

[12:49] {wishbone} :)

[12:49] {nemo} scuse me

[12:50] {wishbone} lol

[12:52] {dino} grrrrrr

[12:55] {Peterg} Well, team, I have been putting off facing that this is my last day for now as an RT trading room member. I am going to give a tearful speech shortly explaining how much I have learned and how I will miss you all and so forth. In fact, if you don't want to read the speech, this will suffice..

[12:55] {Peterg} I will be thanking the boss for his counself, and perhaps throwing a few affectionate barbs here and there.

[12:56] {Peterg} But being in this group has been a great experience. Thanks all.

[12:57] {Peterg} Talk about me frequently; I will be reading the transcripts.

[12:57] {magoo} gonna miss ya bro:)

[12:57] {Threei}  we will peter

[12:57] {ese} out for the day all take care....

[12:57] {Threei}  good luck to you, and you know where to find us

[12:57] {wishbone} cya ese

[12:57] {ese} definately

[12:57] {Threei}  take care ese

[12:57] {Peterg} Thanks all, hope to return !

[12:57] {wishbone} take care pter

[12:57] {magoo} as long as vad doesn't keep switching the room lol

[12:57] {Peterg} Make money & have fun. Lrned a lot

[12:58] {cujo} bye Peterg.  Best of luck

[12:58] {dino} best of luck to you peter

[12:58] {Peterg} Snifff. gotta go & do the day job. Tks again

[13:00] {Threei}  AN NAHB HOUSING MARKET INDEX: 8 V 9E

[13:06] {Threei}  matket picks up some strength

[13:06] {larisa} for real this time ? :)

[13:06] {Threei}  good question

[13:07] {dino} epiq

[13:08] {cujo} euphoria on stt Vad?

[13:08] {Threei}  it just goes up and down with market

[13:10] {Threei}  should pullback now... around .50 looks to become a bounce scalp

[13:12] {wishbone} vad got disconnecte which symb

[13:12] {Threei}  answering about STT wish

[13:12] {wishbone} symbol?

[13:13] {wishbone} ty

[13:13] {elepet} u[];ianyone in drys?

[13:15] {_gman} I am on the trial

[13:15] {Threei}  hi gman, welcome

[13:15] {_gman} free trial sorry

[13:15] {_gman} hi

[13:15] {cujo} hello gman

[13:16] {Threei}  ok, STT is almost there

[13:16] {Threei}  .50 is closest support,

[13:16] {Threei}  watch market for reversal uward top grab it

[13:17] {dptl} why .50 Vad?

[13:17] {Threei}  meets rising lower BB there

[13:18] {dptl} ok ty

[13:18] {Threei}  needs market in any case, it mirrors market last few hours

[13:20] {dino} apol

[13:21] {Threei}  in

[13:21] {KSystems} in

[13:21] {Threei}  .27

[13:22] {KSystems} .31 here, do you have a

[13:22] {Threei}  stop under .20

[13:22] {KSystems} 20 ok

[13:23] {cujo} in .29

[13:25] {Threei}  half out .39

[13:25] {cujo} out .36

[13:25] {cujo} small lots, no half :(

[13:25] {cujo} thanks vad

[13:25] {Threei}  welcome... training wheels?

[13:25] {cujo} yeah 100 still

[13:26] {cujo} till i can get emtions under more control

[13:26] {Threei}  out balance

[13:26] {cujo} then will move up from there. 

[13:27] {Threei}  bounce off 16 is next

[13:28] {Threei}  no market help for now

[13:29] {Threei}  in

[13:29] {Threei}  .04

[13:29] {Threei}  stop under 16, ridiculously tight

[13:31] {Threei}  am I too greedy?

[13:32] {cujo} never

[13:32] {Threei}  half out .20

[13:33] {Threei}  offering balance .35

[13:33] {Threei}  stop to .19

[13:33] {magoo} nice trade

[13:34] {Threei}  ty'

[13:34] {cujo} great call.

[13:34] {KSystems} absolutely

[13:34] {cujo} wish first bounce as large as second bounce ;)

[13:34] {cujo} but can't win 'em all...

[13:34] {Threei}  out balance

[13:35] {Threei}  shakeout...

[13:35] {Threei}  wow DRYS

[13:35] {Threei}  missed break

[13:35] {Threei}  you in elepet?

[13:36] {Threei}  ummm... can I have my STT back?

[13:36] {elepet} yes

[13:36] {Threei}  mulligan?

[13:36] {magoo} man..look at q chart

[13:37] {elepet} from  13.42

[13:37] {Threei}  time to partial elepet... at least

[13:37] {cujo} rockin

[13:37] {Threei}  don't chase aything here, pullback is coming

[13:37] {cujo} short the pullback on the qqqq?

[13:37] {Threei}  nah

[13:38] {cujo} sitin tight

[13:38] {Threei}  long on pullbacks is the way to go today

[13:39] {Threei}  UPDATE: PRESIDENT OBAMA SETS HIRING FREEZE ON TOP CABINET MEMBERS, CALLS FOR ADDED TRANSPARENCY WITHIN GOVT

[13:40] {Threei}  if market spike sharply here, DRYS 14 break and STT .50 break

[13:41] {Threei}  STT stop under .40

[13:41] {Threei}  DRYSunder .90

[13:41] {elepet} couldn't do it. (sell any drys) it felt like it was going up.

[13:42] {Threei}  volatile thing

[13:42] {Threei}  in volatile market

[13:43] {Threei}  keep stops tight and watch for re-entry if pullbacks are deep

[13:46] {Threei}  dizzy yet?

[13:46] {cujo} y

[13:46] {magoo} yea

[13:46] {cujo} thing moves

[13:46] {Threei}  these quick up and down are seasickness-inducing

[13:47] {nemo} drink more

[13:48] {Threei}  STT 1:1

[13:49] {Threei}  1:2

[13:49] {Threei}  me out

[13:49] {magoo} out .69 TY

[13:49] {Threei}  your turn DRYS

[13:50] {Threei}  {DRYS} yes sir

[13:50] {magoo} magoos kickin it

[13:51] {magoo} drys kickin back

[13:51] {Threei}  last pullback on DRYSS bottomed out at .95

[13:51] {Threei}  if you want to control risk really tight, trail to under it

[13:53] {Threei}  if this day doesn't turn bright all of a sudden...

06[13:54] * Threei squints in magoo's direction

[13:54] {nemo} was waiting for that

[13:54] {Threei}  Very Big Grin

[13:54] {nemo} mags is turning all red

[13:54] {Threei}  lesson of the day:

[13:55] {magoo} ive found that when i complain in room..i usually am wrong which inevitably helps our cause:)

[13:55] {Threei}  leave useless emotions at the door,

[13:55] {Threei}  take valid setups,

[13:55] {Threei}  plug along as market goes,

[13:55] {Threei}  no matter how this or that trade or day or even week turns out,

[13:56] {Threei}  you will win in a long run as long as you adeploy valid system and execute it flawlessly, relentlessly and with no second-guessing

[13:56] {nemo} past is prologue, future may or may not come...all is now

[13:56] {Threei}  eqzaktly

[13:57] {Threei}  two secondary lessons:

[13:57] {Threei}  don't spell right

[13:57] {Threei}  and when you absolutely don't know what to do, do this:

06[13:57] * Threei slaps magoo around a bit with a large roll of cash

[13:58] {Threei}  bad spelling has two additional advantages

[13:58] {Threei}  it irritates the hell out of Raven

[13:58] {Threei}  and it will irritate the hell out of peter when he reads our logs

[13:58] {nemo} among others :)

[13:59] {Threei}  and heavens know I love irritating people...

[14:00] {Threei}  DRYS 1:1

[14:00] {Threei}  isn't it irritating

[14:00] {nemo} makin' money no...not understaning eqzaktly why it's working...yes

[14:01] {Threei}  oh, and if you think I am exaggerating - just ask patience... she knows herds of people I irritate to no end {G}

[14:01] {larisa} you can stop now :)

[14:01] {Threei}  come on nemo... there is not much to understand really

[14:01] {Threei}  I can't larisa, sorry...

[14:01] {Threei}  I have my quota of people to irritate per day

[14:01] {Threei}  and I haven't fulfilled it yet

[14:02] {Threei}  btw, I hate to admit that but magoo was right on DRYS

[14:02] {dino}  dino places 3i on ignore

[14:02] {nemo} I ever tell you about my "disgruntled-postal-worker-fantasy list?

[14:02] {cosmo} also... its better to feel irritated than feel nothing at all...

[14:03] {Raven} {}

[14:03] {larisa} i dunno cosmo, can i disagree? :)

[14:03] {magoo} 12:36] {magoo} vad..i got weird feeling DRYS going over day high

[14:04] {cosmo} born to suffer here...

[14:04] {Threei}  that'ss what I meant mags

[14:04] {Threei}  larisa... you can disagree but xosmo will be very irritated

[14:04] {larisa} lol

[14:05] {Threei}  dino... this is one single time I admitted he was right... and you place me on ignore? next time will be in 2010, I promise

[14:05] {cosmo} xosmo is no friend of mine

[14:05] {KSystems} vad , are you still in DRYS?

[14:05] {Raven} lol

[14:05] {Threei}  no

[14:05] {Threei}  took 1:1

[14:05] {elepet} went over and pulled back. will it do it again? Drys HOD?

[14:05] {Threei}  maybe will regret

[14:06] {Threei}  but I move into scalping mode for the next hour at least

[14:06] {magoo} no regrets..been total scalp or lose day

[14:10] {dino} cedc

[14:10] {Threei}  I have this nagging feeling that one more bigger trade must be in cards today

[14:11] {Threei}  don't want to push it, and don't want to miss it... lol

[14:11] {magoo} could it be RIMM?

[14:11] {larisa} you can annoy us with this one :)

[14:11] {Threei}  lol

[14:12] {cosmo} on the edge of my seat here

[14:13] {magoo} could it be DRYS to 15??

[14:13] {elepet} and thar she blows( drys)

[14:13] {Threei}  if market explodes, it can

[14:13] {Threei}  DRYS potential really hard to overestimate

[14:14] {cosmo} i'm in it simply for the stimulus

[14:14] {Threei}  this thing knows how to move

[14:14] {Threei}  lol cos

[14:14] {magoo} like pulp baby

[14:14] {Threei}  watch it busting through .20 like it's nothing

[14:19] {dino} cedc tempting

[14:19] {magoo} news CEDC vas

[14:19] {Threei}  HEARING DOWNGRADED TO MARKET PERFORM FROM MARKET OUTPERFORM AT AVONDALE (TIMING UNCERTAIN)

[14:20] {dino} ty

[14:20] {magoo} sheesh..kiss of death

[14:20] {Threei}  that's it??

[14:20] {Threei}  such drop on one downgrade by no-name?

[14:20] {dino} he had a name

[14:21] {magoo} well hes still idiot

[14:23] {Threei}  small shares in

[14:24] {Threei}  stop under 13.90

[14:24] {elepet} drys in retreat?

[14:24] {Threei}  market is

[14:24] {Threei}  so is DRYS

[14:26] {dino} out celg .62, +.60

[14:27] {Threei}  out CEDC for now

[14:27] {Threei}  there is something else behind this dump

[14:28] {Threei}  maybe traders overloaded on CEDC product

[14:30] {Threei}  market is ready for a 'ally

[14:31] {Threei}  US HOUSE FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE HOLDING TALKS WITH AGRICULTURE COMMITTEE OVER COMMODITES OVERSIGHT

[14:32] {Threei}  {DRYS} what's .20?

[14:32] {magoo} i just reloaded DRYS .15

[14:33] {magoo} just do not rinse me

[14:34] {Threei}  where is your stop?

[14:34] {magoo} .06

[14:34] {magoo} feels 15  

[14:34] {magoo} but nasty

[14:35] {magoo} RIMM hangs around

[14:37] {Threei}  'ally

[14:37] {magoo} thats twice u said'ally he he

[14:37] {Threei}  offer part above .30

[14:37] {Threei}  what can I do... Larisa forbids me to say rally

[14:38] {magoo} ah..remember those days

[14:38] {nemo} you just said it

[14:39] {magoo} no i didn't

[14:40] {nemo} Vad did

[14:40] {magoo} waiting .29 ug

[14:43] {Threei}  LIBYA'S KHADAFI: MAY NOT OBEY OPEC QUOTAS DUE TO LOW OIL PRICES

[14:43] {Threei}  woohooo

[14:43] {Threei}  way to go guys

[14:44] {nemo} knew that was coming...

[14:44] {Threei}  (IQ) IRAQ SOUTH OIL COMPANY TO INCREASE OUTPUT BY APPROX 400K BPD BY END OF 2010

[14:44] {Threei}  - Plans to drill up to 400 well over three year span

[14:44] {dino} out axys .21, +.46

[14:44] {nemo} That's why we invaded...

[14:45] {dino} pump 'em dry

[14:45] {nemo} Crank up the 4-wheel Drive!!!

[14:46] {dino} suv suv suv

[14:49] {nemo} somebody whack laserdave, I can't

[14:49] {Threei}  with what nemo?

06[14:49] * magoo slaps laserdave around a bit with a large trout

[14:49] {nemo} thanks mags

[14:50] {Threei}  see, I wanted to customize the smack on your behalf

[14:50] {Threei}  cater to your specifications

[14:51] {magoo} i went with traditional vad'

[14:51] {Threei}  that works too

[14:54] {Threei}  next leg is coming

[14:54] {Threei}  a bit torturously but...

[15:04] {nemo} smelling a retracement

[15:05] {magoo} its the power hower

[15:05] {Threei}  .30 be taken

[15:06] {Threei}  'ally be continuing

[15:07] {magoo} IDCC vad?

[15:07] {Threei}  can't tell

06[15:08] * magoo slaps &Threei around a bit with a large ability to answer magoos questions more satisfactoriy

[15:08] {Threei}  lol

[15:08] {Threei}  see DRYS?

[15:08] {Threei}  what I can tell I do

[15:08] {magoo} in 

[15:09] {elepet} my word. going for 15?

[15:10] {magoo} excuse me...it was MY word he he

[15:10] {Threei}  you guys... stop guessing and start managing trades

[15:10] {elepet} even palm is finally moving.

[15:10] {magoo} HUH?

[15:10] {Threei}  didn't I ask you to partial out above .30?

[15:10] {Threei}  practically begged

[15:11] {magoo} how would i know? i have u on ignore

[15:11] {Threei}  oh

[15:11] {Threei}  got it

[15:11] {hawkfan4} lol

[15:11] {nemo} no good deed goes unpunished Vad

[15:11] {Threei}  never

[15:11] {Threei}  but I am fine with it

[15:12] {Threei}  being ignored is my natural state

[15:12] {Threei}  and natural outcome of being irritating {G}

[15:13] {magoo} ok out .34

[15:14] {nemo} whoa mags, floor just dropped...good deal

[15:16] {dino} did you say something

[15:19] {Threei}  DOE: OBAMA'S DECREE TO HALT BUSH PLANS MAY AFFECT OFFSHORE DRILLING AND OIL SHALE DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS

[15:19] {Threei}  - Note: on 1/16 it was reported that the US Administration was preparing to push proposals to allow offshore oil drilling in certain sites previously restricted

[15:20] {nemo} FAS up 23% sheesh

[15:21] {Threei}  BAC

[15:21] {Threei}  UPDATE: LATE DAY STRENGTH ATTRIBUTED TO CEO KEN LEWIS DICLOSES PURCHASE OF ABOUT 200K SHARES

[15:21] {Threei}  lol

[15:22] {dino} good, when they wipe out the common he will get hit

[15:22] {Threei}  if he bought at 7, its 1.4M

[15:22] {nemo} Oil Rises as Equities Rally on Bank-Rescue Plan Speculation 

[15:22] {Threei}  what % of his bonus is that?

[15:22] {nemo} .0032%

[15:23] {Threei}  there you go

[15:23] {Threei}  and happy ytradfers buy BAC?

[15:23] {Threei}  nice pullback DRYS

[15:23] {Threei}  should be scalpable

[15:24] {magoo} u got the ball vad..make the call

[15:24] {Threei}  now mags...

[15:24] {Threei}  where is my "thank you" for making you sell above .30?

[15:24] {nemo} Come to think of it, the news that could really rocket the market is a "national bank"  Grab an ultra financial long and hold on

[15:24] {magoo} thank u...humbly spoken:)

[15:24] {Threei}  you are welcome kind sir

[15:24] {magoo} u were right allday...i was wrong to despair

[15:25] {Threei}  no call on price DRYS... watch market for bounce

[15:25] {nemo} Hey mags, it's either a light at the end of the tunnel, or an oncoming train-either way, it's over soon.

[15:25] {magoo} that does itttttttt

[15:26] {nemo} I'm ducking!

06[15:26] * magoo slaps nemo around a bit with a large a um, er,um i dont know what to add

[15:26] {nemo} book by H.L. Mencken

[15:26] {magoo} hard pull drys

[15:29] {larisa} DRYS is irritating

[15:30] {magoo} GS was the tell

[15:30] {magoo} animal

[15:32] {KSystems} 14 break?

[15:32] {Threei}  only if market spikes sharply

[15:33] {nemo} things seem to be quieting down a bit

[15:33] {patience} oil number tomorrow vad?

[15:33] {Threei}  yes

[15:33] {patience} ty  :)

[15:34] {Threei}  they moved to Thu because of holiday on Monday

[15:35] {nemo} Oh excrement! look at this:

[15:35] {nemo} With the market down about 9% year-to-date, everyone is looking at making money shorting the market. It's not easy: the downside potential is unlimited. Stocks sold short can be called away by the brokerage firm while a position is at a loss, thus, realizing the loss.

[15:35] {nemo} In particular, people are piling into short ETFs. However, qualified-account holders such as IRA investors who are buying short ETFs can run into the headache of unrelated business taxable income (UBTI).

[15:35] {nemo} Shorting stocks can only be done in taxable accounts and not qualified accounts like IRAs. However, IRA investors can buy ETFs like the ProShares UltraShort Financials (SKF - commentary - Cramer's Take), the Rydex Inverse Russell 2x Leverage (RRZ - commentary - Cramer's Take) or the Federated Prudent Bear Fund A (BEARX - commentary - Cramer's Take).

[15:35] {nemo} However, activities inside of these funds can cause the shareholder to file taxes even if they are bought inside an IRA. This occurs when a tax-exempt entity participates in business that is not deemed tax exempt by the Internal Revenue Service as part of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA).

[15:35] {nemo} According to the IRS, "Securities purchased on margin are considered debt-financed property if the liability incurred in purchasing them remains outstanding." Much of the law is directed towards investors using self-directed IRAs for purchasing property, but this can also be an issue for master-limited partnerships.

[15:35] {nemo} Many funds do not merely short stocks, but lever up to amplify returns. However, leverage is not allowed inside an IRA, and if it occurs, the IRA owner must file a tax return. In the money management business, if this happens to your uninformed client, you'll end up with egg on your face when the client's CPA calls you with questions.

[15:35] {nemo} According to the website 990.com, Form 990-T, "Exempt Organization Business Income Tax Return," must be filed if over $1,000 in income of this type is earned. A CPA's advice is needed for such an obscure subject.

[15:35] {nemo} Make sure you know what you are doing if you try to buy a short EFT. It is not the same as buying 1,000 shares of Coca-Cola (KO - commentary - Cramer's Take) and holding for 40 years. These investments must be watched like a hawk -- many ETFs are full of swaps made with shaky investment banks. These esoteric securities are trickier than you think. 

[15:35] {Threei}  STT

[15:36] {Threei}  ugh... late

[15:36] {Threei}  was a scalp off 17.10

[15:38] {Threei}  grrr

[15:38] {Threei}  hat was beautiful setup... I was unforgivably slow on alert

[15:39] {cujo} no worries

[15:39] {Threei}  double bottom, small risk, and STT gave delay for entry vsmarket spike

[15:40] {nemo} mags, did you get back into DRYS?

[15:40] {Threei}  MOODY'S PUTS STATE OF CALIFORNIA ON WATCH NEGATIVE

[15:41] {Threei}  careful cosmo

[15:41] {magoo} no

[15:41] {Threei}  I must say, that was highly unusual day

[15:41] {Threei}  encouraging too

[15:43] {nemo} that's because you didn't say 'ally

[15:44] {Threei}  anyway... glad we could fix it after lukewarm morning

[15:44] {nemo} I'm just glad mags is feeling better

[15:44] {Threei}  is he?

[15:45] {Threei}  I gotta fix that too...

[15:45] {nemo} well, richer

06[15:45] * Threei slaps magoo around a bit with a large chart of uptrending market

[15:45] {dino} crazy days. -350 yesterday +250 today

[15:46] {Threei}  Sept-Oct swings are back

[15:46] {dino} reading my mind

[15:50] {nemo} Well see ya' tomorrow.  I'm off like a herd of turtles

[15:50] {KSystems} cya nemo

[15:50] {Threei}  take care nemo

[15:50] {wishbone} bye nemo

[15:50] {dino} cya nemo

[15:52] {Threei}  oh boy

[15:52] {Threei}  STT

[15:52] {Threei}  SHARES CUT TO HOLD FROM BUY AT ARGUS, PRICE TARGET $25 (TIMING UNCERTAIN)

[15:52] {Threei}  I swear financial world is run by idiots

[15:52] {hawkfan4} no kidding

[15:52] {dino} real value added

[15:53] {Threei}  this is beyond funny

[15:53] {dino} let's downgrade it 70 points off summer highs

[15:53] {cujo} it is run by idiots... confirmed

[15:53] {cosmo} seller's remorse?

[15:53] {Threei}  lol cos

[15:53] {cosmo} :)

[15:54] {dino} trust no one in this business

[15:54] {Threei}  watch STT for bounce from under .40 if you are inclined to try one last scalp

[15:54] {cujo} :)

[15:54] {Threei}  but don't lose track of time

[15:54] {Threei}  6 min lweft

[15:55] {Threei}  there you go

[15:55] {Threei}  touched under 40 and jumped like crazy antelope

[15:55] {Threei}  if you were faster than your own blinking, you could catch it {G}

[15:55] {cujo} thanks Vad

[15:55] {cujo} out +20

[15:55] {Threei}  you got it cujo?

[15:56] {Threei}  jeez

[15:56] {larisa} lol

[15:56] {Threei}  King knew what he wrote about...

[15:56] {cujo} was hairy

[15:56] {magoo} NICE dsog

[15:56] {cujo} thanks

[15:56] {dptl} gn all

[15:56] {dino} gj

[15:56] {dino} cya dp

[15:57] {cujo} goodnight all.  Thanks for that last one Vad. 

[15:57] {magoo} ok vad..u taking 1k aapl here?

[15:57] {dino} l8r cujo

[15:57] {KSystems} wtf

[15:57] {Threei}  lol

[15:57] {dino} lol fs

[15:58] {Threei}  take care dp, cujo

[15:58] {dino} ks

[15:58] {cujo} later dino

[15:58] {fernp} good evening all

[15:58] {Threei}  larisa

[15:59] {Threei}  2 min left

[15:59] {Threei}  can I say rally?

[15:59] {Threei}  no chance to break anyhting anymore

[15:59] {Threei}  fern :)

[15:59] {dino} later fern

[15:59] {dino} i guess all is well in world again

[16:00] {larisa} lets not risk it, may be we will have continuation tomorrow if you do not :)

[16:00] {Threei}  sigh

[16:00] {dino} ditto

[16:00] {elepet} -i finally partialled drys at .37

[16:00] {Threei}  wtg elepet

[16:00] {Threei}  don't know how you can hold them for so long

[16:00] {Threei}  but paid off well

[16:01] {KSystems} !daV "rally" yas yam uoY

[16:01] {Threei}  oh boy

[16:01] {elepet} it was a struggle.. don't forget, i've been a long term investor. years.

[16:01] {Threei}  scary thought

[16:01] {Threei}  Ok guys, thank you all

[16:01] {larisa} see you guys tomorrow :)

[16:01] {Threei}  have a good evening, see you all tomorrow

[16:02] {KSystems} good night!

[16:02] {hawkfan4} nite all

[16:02] {patience} thanks vad and all, a modestly successful day but good nonetheless   :)

[16:03] {magoo} u not waiting for aapl fireworx vad?

[16:05] {Threei}  what time?

[16:06] {magoo} might be 430

[16:06] {Threei}  well

[16:06] {Threei}  if I don't fall asleep

[16:07] {dino} yes, thx all didn't do as much as i should have (3 for 3) but didn't feel the rally lsting